Is Free Will ACTUALLY the Self?

One definition of free will I haven’t seen before and came up with a few minutes ago is as follows: “Free Will IS ACTUALLY the self – there is no division.”

The question of “Does the self have free will?” in this case is not the issue. The issue is rather “Is free will EQUAL to the self?”

Thus, asking if a self has free will is like asking water if it has liquid? Or asking space if it has time? Or asking matter if it has energy?

For if I define self in this way, I have a new way at looking at death: Death occurs whenever I no longer have free will, and have thus my self is gone temporarily out of existence.

THOUGHT EXPERIMENT: My mum and I have a boat accident and are swimming deep underwater and desperate for oxygen. I wouldn’t normally kick my mom, but if she is above me and my body’s survival mechanics kick in, I may kick and pull on her to get to the surface twenty feet up. Once there, we both (hopefully) recover and talk about why I kicked and pulled the shit out of her.”

So, according to this definition of the free-will-self WAS I DEAD in those desperate moments?

Yes. My conscious choosing self was gone and only animal instinct remained.

And, later, back on shore I came back to “life” and would not willingly kick or pull on my mother.

***

Epictetus, Free Will Champion of the Roman stoics, said this once concerning the two men who worked to condemn Socrates to death, “Anytus and Meletus can kill me, but hurt me, they cannot.”

But Anytus and Meletus could torture Epictetus until he begged involuntarily for mercy or made other concessions.

So … IF the self is dead during overwhelm, is the self actually hurt in this definition? No. Because a self that cannot choose does NOT exist. Existence IS choosing.

***

Epictetus defines what we control (AKA: Free to Use) as follows: “Things in our control are conception, choice, desires and aversions and in a word, anything of our own doing. Things not in our control are body, possessions, reputation, and office and, in a word, anything not of our own doing.”

So, in the example above if the body’s needs dominates the will to where it can no longer choose and control is the self dead?

Yes.

And that would mean the free-will-self is dead also during anesthesia and deep dreamless sleep.

So, reincarnation AT LEAST has one place where it occurs according to this definition:

In. Your. Real. Life.

4 thoughts on “Is Free Will ACTUALLY the Self?

  1. hi there Kid.
    I take a few digestive pills and I will reread your post THAN and i will express my beliefs and keep it in mind what I write is not a criticism but my own reality on what you written, how i see-understand your beliefs.
    But first I go for my usual walk its only 6;30 here. Hot here, still 83.

  2. It’s a good angle. This discussion of free will is difficult to find a purchase. It’s arguments are slathered in slick with no where to bite.

    But I like your proposition because its counterintuitive to the normal either or positions.

    I like how appears when we appear, and disappears when we disappear. This is consistent with my observation.

  3. It’s a good angle. This discussion of free will is difficult to find a purchase. It’s arguments are slathered in slick with no where to bite.

    But I like your proposition because its counterintuitive to the normal either or positions.

    I like how free will appears when we appear, and disappears when we disappear. And the corollary of WE appearing when choices erupt, and we disappear when none are possible. This is consistent with my observation.

    And it’s the product of some very creative thinking.

  4. “””””Is free will EQUAL to the self?”””” to this only the one could give on answer, because only ”self” can evaluate what is equal to self or not.
    But if ”free will” is presented as mass and ”self” too than it is very easy conclude which is which.
    Only matter can be compared.

    ”” Death occurs whenever I no longer have free will, and have thus my self is gone temporarily out of existence.””

    if some one truly beliefs that they have choices as human than the above is fact BUT for me death only happens for the meat body and not for on intangible Infinite.

    Here is part of a post from my blog.
    “”””
    FREE WILL, do we have one? There are many variety- selection- assortment of everything available and which ones we settle for which will we have on the end?

    One is being led steered driven motivated directed by the strongest stimulation inspirations available at all time, as like in bee line we follow the stimulation as it flows and there is no choice in the matter. [ from item to item we go, follow the energy line ] Example: in restaurant, one choses from the menu the most stimulating dish, the most mouth-watering dessert which appeal to all our senses, we chose- select the car which we finds most appealing, as in color, style, we choses a pair of shoes a dress a suit the same way: Which item on the display has the strongest appeal; one buy the one which delivers the most affective stimulant.

    This goes with everything: where we go, take a vacation too: mountains or by the sea, when we hand-pick fruit and vegetables which we buy one piece at a time: those we buy is only which stimulate our senses the most.

    Even the partner we choose to be in our life, in or out of bed: will have to have the qualification the most stimulating, exciting person we meet, as in looks, stimulation as in sexually, and mentally has to be adequate, be suitable, be satisfactory in every passible requirements :to have similar reality, agreement with our own believes…

    . [Parents choosing partners for their children has been rebelled against for this reason, since there is no stimulation existing for self, by one’s own choice, reality but only the parets has that stimulation-choice]

    We do not choose our self but we continually follow the most stimulating motivating exciting, inspiring energy flows which deliver the impact we need to experience in order to function; experience = to feel that we are being alive at all times [ when sex stimulation wears off, new partner is acquired or heavier stimulus: is being brought in to excite -enliven the senses again once more ] .

    We believe we have FREE WILL, but that is an illusion. The strongest energy flow- the most stimulation pulls us: as in selecting everything in “our life,” from buying a house as in what location and style or in choosing a occupation: has to be as exciting, motivating, interesting: have to be as in pay =as rewarding + worthwhile+ valuable.

    In other word: do fits in, satisfies, stimulates fulfils the right way, do achieve our needs.[ one always chooses the heaviest stimulation, example: a man choses a woman he know she is no good, a woman stay with a man who beats her= and can delivers that heavy stimulation at all times which is required as in bed partner too. Too much stimulation or not enough causes the divorces.]

    Just think, what kind of woman draws man like bees to the flower? What kind a man who pulls in woman by the dozens? Violent movies, and news have lot of followers— since they have heavy energy. Those who need to have the continual heavy energy flows to be stimulated, not likely read Fairy Tales, or watch “Sword in the Stone” by Walt Disney ]

    There is an interesting thing happens as children grow become teenagers: they insert-introduce into the family unit their own”NEED TO DO, MUST FALLOW” their own energy stimulation requirements and that causes the rebellion against the already established parental energy flows-lines which of course the parents do not want to give up.

    While one is here on this Planet, is ruled -controlled by the continual energy flows of this Planet and the illusions what the ”eyes” see is real.
    What do you see with closed eyes, what do you see in darkness?

    you:
    ”””””””” My conscious choosing self was gone and only animal instinct remained.””’
    what ever we believe in, have thoughts on, regardless we call that ”animal instinct” is ours hehehe just because that act or thoughts is not liked and acceptable by social behavior that do not means the person who has those thoughts can say”’ no it is not mine, belongs to my dog.!””” oh please!!!
    i wont make comments on the rest of the post, my beliefs are too contradictory.
    i have experienced countless earlier life’s therefore i see-understand very differently from what ”life” and ”death” means to you and knowing I am infinite therefor one life span of the meat-body i would not call having ”lived– or life”, just on experience.
    Elizabeth.

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